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Conversing Covid with Matthijs Lok

An Interview Series on the Political Implications of the Pandemic

For this interview series, Fabiana Natale and Gilles de Valk are interviewing experts from different backgrounds on the political implications of the COVID-19 pandemic. From their living rooms in France and the Netherlands they will explore the consequences the pandemic will have for (geo)political, security, and societal affairs. This interview series marks the launch of a new type of content for the Security Distillery, one which we hope can provide entertaining and informative analysis of an uncertain and evolving development in global politics.

On 6 May 2020, the historian and political writer Timothy Garton Ash asked in the Guardian: ‘What kind of historical moment will this turn out to be, for Europe and the world?’  What do you think, Matthijs?

     It seems like a lot of people around me are optimistic about the future, although these people tend to have a background in social sciences. As a historian, you tend to be a little more suspicious of how large historical events turn out, so I’m a bit more sceptical. I think the “corona crisis” is a reinforcement of existing trends, rather than a rupture with the past. Authoritarianism, nationalism, and other undemocratic developments that were already taking place seem to be enhanced. Even though some people think of it as a time of solidarity, we have seen friction within the EU between the Netherlands and Italy, for example [the Dutch were initially  hesitant about proposed financial aid to southern European countries, which sparked criticism]. Regarding nationalist developments, it seems like there is an emphasis on national self-sufficiency, rather than international cooperation or cosmopolitanism. This trend had already emerged before the crisis if you look at United States President Donald Trump’s policies or the trade war with China, but now we have witnessed nationalist reflexes in countries like Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, and Germany. This reinforcement of national self-sufficiency has not led to the exclusion of specific groups, but it can become that way.     

 

You mentioned that you are  not as optimistic, being a historian. Do you see similarities between the corona crisis and any historical event in particular?

     We have seen moves towards nationalism and self-sufficiency after big crises before. The eighteenth  century, for instance, was very much a time of commerce and free trade. After the French Revolution, which turned out very different from how the participants expected, you see a surge in nationalism and a focus on economic self-sufficiency, while the belief in international trade experienced a setback. Another period it makes me think of is the end of the nineteenth  century, which was a period of globalisation. However, World War One caused another move towards national self-sufficiency. I would not compare the corona crisis to World War One, but generally speaking, you can see that crises can result in a more inward focus.

On the other hand, the corona crisis shows that some problems that seemed to be unsolvable can be solved. I’m thinking of “overtourism” in European cities such as Venice, Paris, and Amsterdam. At the same time, it seems like we are rushing less in our daily lives  and the fact that we are travelling less can have a positive impact on the environment. Besides, it seems to have caused a revaluation of the public sector, especially the health, education, and law enforcement sectors.   

Read the full interview at the security distillery.org

By Fabiana Natale and Gilles de Valk

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